Bert Weiss: New Podcasting Book Listenable

My friend Bert Weiss, host of the nationally syndicated Bert Show and CEO/President of his podcasting agency Pionaire, has written a new book on podcasting. I recently sat down with Bert to talk about the relevant and informative Listenable.

R: Why write a book on podcasting?

B: The upside to podcasting is anybody can do it. The downside is anybody can do it. I started listening to the many talented people doing podcasts and noticed content is all over the place. My book is the only one out there about content. A successful podcast gets down to content and delivery.

R: Yes, anybody can do a podcast. My dentist, for example, asked me what equipment he should buy to start his podcast.

B: So many people do it backward. Rather than focusing on getting the right equipment, which you can Google search in three minutes, focus on the content of your podcast. Start practicing your podcast on your phone. Record and review several shows, then research equipment. This is why I think my book will really help out potential podcasters. It’s the ONLY podcasting book that solely focuses on content and delivery.

R: Is your podcast The Bert Show or original content outside the show?

B: It’s our radio show. The way we put the radio show together is in five-minute snackable increments that go into ten-minute segments. The format of a radio show is exactly like a podcast. Our radio show content can work for a TV show, YouTube, or podcast.

R: Can you share your download numbers?

B: We were getting 30,000 downloads daily. Then coronavirus happened. We used that time to start focusing on and understanding our analytics and marketing. We really focused on what listeners were downloading and what content they were listening to then just gave them more of it. Within a year we were averaging 250,000 downloads daily. Analytics helps both our radio show and podcast.

R:  You mentioned radio and podcast formats are the same. What are some specific similarities?

B: Structurally, radio shows and podcasts are the same. To be successful, you can’t wing it like many podcasters do. You must prepare content, show schedules, and getting in and out of segments. You need to know how to tease effectively. I’m a fan of billboarding what’s coming on the radio show AND on podcasts. Execute a sensational tease going into your second and third segments to keep listeners. I’ve only known one person in my career who could go into a show without structure…his name was Kidd Kraddick.

Relevant content is key for all platforms. The beauty of podcasting is editing. You can take two hours and get it down to a great hour OR LESS of A-content. 

R: How important is having a distinctive niche or lane and researching competitors in that space?

B: I don’t worry about competitors in radio or podcasting. Yes, you do need a lane. For example, Joe Rogan is a masterful interviewer. He can interview people on subjects he doesn’t know much about. If your podcast is heavy on interviews, genuine curiosity, and active listening builds off guest answers and moves conversations forward. All great interviewers are genuinely curious.

R: How important are guests?

B: In the beginning, I wouldn’t have guests. Many podcasters book guests because guests consume time. First, practice and get better as an interviewer. Many personalities don’t spend enough time researching guests to get a sense of what they’re like conversationally.

You are only as good as your guest. I can ask Ed Sheeran one question, and he’ll go on for seven minutes. Lizzo and Kelly Clarkson are easy to talk to. I don’t know if I’d ever have Harrison Ford on the show again because he was such a difficult guest. Big name. Painful interview.

R: If you are starting a podcast, what’s the ideal length?

B: I’m not a fan of the standard one-hour weekly podcast. If it’s A-content it doesn’t matter whether it’s twenty minutes or an hour. The old showbiz adage, leave them wanting more works in podcasting too. Eighteen to twenty minutes is a good starting point.

R: Would you start a radio show podcast with audio and video?

B: I would start with audio. But at some point, soon, you’ll have to do a video. Video is easier to market and sell sponsorships. Eventually, it’s all going to be video you can already see this with YouTube video podcast analytics.

R: Some shows hold back from video streaming in fear of losing PPM numbers. What’s your view?

B: I have not seen any ratings loss whatsoever.

R: You have a chapter in your book on monetizing podcasts. At what point can you expect to earn revenue?

B: Depending on the network, you should start to see an increase in revenue at around 30,000 monthly downloads.

R: I often hear talent and programmers complain that radio salespeople are not skilled at selling digital, even in the top ten markets.

B: It’s an industry frustration for sure. On a few ends. Both sellers and traditional radio buyers. This was a major decision in why my network, Pionaire, has hired our own digital salespeople.

R: Tell us about Pionaire.

B: Pionaire is a digital influencing network that is not just about podcasting. Pionaire is focused on audio and video. Our goal is to get our creators out of the mindset of being one-dimensional. We are NOT just audio. We are influencers along multiple platforms that can earn revenue with audio, video, and influencing sponsorships.

The content I’m doing on radio is repurposed on digital. Talent should get earn revenue for their show AND for their podcast. It’s the same content in some cases.

Many radio programmers and talent are thinking one-dimensionally. Our industry has to shift to a 3-D mentality. We’re not only radio personalities; we are also influencers – the original influencers.

R: Does Pionaire partner with radio companies to share revenue with talent?

B: Yes we do. We partner with Cumulus. But I own the content. In terms of radio, 90-95% of radio talent don’t own their content, it’s owned by the radio station so the talent can’t earn revenue anywhere else but through the company. And, historically, radio has only given crumbs to its radio talent for the extra content that talent must provide for additional content. I’ve heard radio programmers say they are frustrated that their talent isn’t eager to do extra podcast work. Well, yeah. Why would they? Where is the motivation? The station gets to sell commercials and generate revenue, but the talent is offered peanuts for that extra revenue if any at all.

Radio is getting it wrong.

In the podcasting world, talent gets 70-80% of the revenue. Pionaire gives its talent 70%. It’s not 80 because we spend A LOT on external marketing our podcasts. If I suggested a 70% share for the talent to a radio GM, I’d get laughed out of the office!

There must be a better split between radio and its talent. Radio NEEDS talent now more than ever. You can get music on 100 different platforms. If radio doesn’t incentivize its talent, it only makes sense that more talent will find platforms that will allow more personal revenue and leave radio.

R: How do we get the book?

B: The book is Listenable, it’s available on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and in stores.

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